Reintroduction of Wolves in Scotland

We have the land & the deer to feed them, we have huge support, we have watched the success of Yellowstone and the revenue its brought so what's the hold up?

Tree's (sufficient forest habitat)
Farmers (livestock)
Ramblers (think they are going to be lunch)

Anyone like to discuss your thoughts on the possible reintroduction?

Well the problem will always be people

People will just not accept anything that might be a risk. I think Paul Listers original idea of a huge park was very interesting one but it seems to have been side railed into a pale imitation of a cheap theme park.

Instead of the original concept of Wolf, bear, lynx and boar roaming around on 50,000 acres we have several NUTRED wolves in a small enclosure.

To get a project on track you will need huge public support and probably a proper 'wolf park' and visitor centre, the likes of which do not exist in the UK.

I think it would help mother nature in many aspects of the wolf being introduced, they will 'cull' the deer far more effectively than any humans can and will keep the deer in good health by hunting the weak and diseased...

Which in turn will help keep the habitat and plants in good order from the deer.

Hi Wolfdog, for me i think a Wolf Education centre is the first step.

Admin i agree but we first have to ensure the right environment, we have lost a lot of tree's, see this link http://www.alladale.com/wilderness-reserve/current-projects/alladale---wildcru-partnership.html

From the ramblers point of view.

http://www.ramblers.org.uk/scotland/ourwork_scotland/access/casestudies/reintroduction-wolves.htm

Farmers.

(The following excerpt taken from http://www.wolvesandhumans.org/wolves/wolf_reintroduction_to_scotland.htm )

Particularly sheep farming, which has always been one of the major stumbling blocks for returning large carnivores, is changing. From January 2005 subsidies based on production, where farmers and crofters receive payment per head of sheep or cattle, were replaced by Single Farm Payments. This means that farms and crofts receive a subsidy regardless of whether livestock are grazed, or crops grown.
This change, coupled with a Scottish Executive ruling doubling the amount of land eligible for the Farm Woodland Premium Scheme, which provides grants for regeneration of native woodland and forestry, could see sheep being replaced by woodland restoration, thus increasing suitable habitat for both predators and their prey.

Major problems i see are also weather conditions up there, high winds causing snow drifts up to six feet high. Wolves could almost step over the fence.

Space - yes there is a lot of land but what happens when the pack expands and splinter packs form?

I'm not sure there is enough space, Scotland even as a whole country is minute compared to yellowstone....

Although wolves did manage to live there before quite happily until we killed them all....

This was my take a few years ago, a bit out of date but not too much. As far as I recall the area comparisons are accurate unless anyone can tell me otherwise.

Yellowstone: 2.5 million acres

Scottish Highlands: 6.2 million acres

I bumped into Paul Lister a couple of years ago but didn't introduce my self. He seemed like an OK guy from my first impression. I think the TV docu series was poor and I only saw 1 episode.

http://www.canislupus.info/ukwolf.html

I bow to your superior knowledge , my memory was of reading about someone in the know (forgotten who) saying the area was too small, many thanks for letting me know the true area numbers....quite surprising....

I may be wrong about Paul Lister (hope I am), 1 episode was enough trust me..

Thanks for the link wolfdog.

What an excellent article Wolfdog

I agree Liz,

I have always found what wolfdog has to say well worth listening to, offers a very balanced view which I am envious of....

Of course Yellowstone is a park and the highlands contain other activities as well!

If we want to consider wolves we must look to our European neighbours first. France and Germany have wolves that have not been reintroduced but have instead crossed borders to re-colonise old territories. The wolves are very small in number but the tiny minority of farmers who might be inconvenienced by them seem to hold a disproportional amount of clout. The same will go for Scotland.

I think that it is of prime importance to get European conservation sorted first before any real consideration of 'introduction' to the wild can be made.

As Shauns audio playing of wolves howling has been a success in Poland in stopping the wolves attacking the farmers livestock long term (according to his new book), then perhaps a solution does exist.....

I think it was another problem I had with Paul Listers TV series....nobody asked Shauns view!

Shaun and CR also had an idea about a 'rent a pack' wolfdog plan to keep wolves at bay, do you know if this is still going ahead?

[quote="Admin"]
I think it was another problem I had with Paul Listers TV series....nobody asked Shauns view!

quote]


Many experts have been consulted worldwide over the years.

You keep saying to me to give Shaun a chance as ive not met him, maybe you should give Paul a chance?

Possibly....

Many scientists / biologists / experts thought Shaun's idea to live with wild wolves was a suicide mission and that he may habituate the wolves to lose their fear of humans and attack people as a result, he was viewed as a maverick and dangerous......

He proved them wrong, but to this day jealousy and envy still exist.

One thing the native American chiefs taught Shaun......

"You may have a great idea or dream, but if the world is not ready to accept it yet, then it is useless"

I think Frank Whittle could testify to this as it took him 10 years to convince people that the jet engine he invented would work!

Of course I am biased, loving wolves as much as I do, but I think it is a fab idea. The last wolf in the UK was despatched I believe in the 16th century, which is not very long ago. In principle, I can see absolutely no reason whatsoever why wild wolves should not once again roam the forests of our more remote areas - the Scottish Highlands being the relevant issue in this discussion.

However, the one ruddy great fly in the ointment is of course the most dangerous animal on the planet, and the biggest threat to it's survival ... us ! Mankind. In principle, it should work. If left alone, the wolves would survive on rabbits, muntjac and grey squirrels ... all of which are not indigenous species, do not belong here, and which need to be culled, if not eradicated. However ... there will be huge opposition from farmers, who think that the wolves will take their sheep ... unlikely , except in extreme conditions of weather where they are literally starving. Wolves are terrified of man, and will avoid them like the plague unless starving. Another problem will be idiots from the towns who think it clever to wolf bait.

Aside from these issues, and the rights of groups such as Ramblers who will mistakenly think that they are at risk of being wolf fodder, I think in principle the idea is one of great merit.

Jamesp wrote:Possibly....

Many scientists / biologists / experts thought Shaun's idea to live with wild wolves was a suicide mission and that he may habituate the wolves to lose their fear of humans and attack people as a result, he was viewed as a maverick and dangerous......

He proved them wrong, but to this day jealousy and envy still exist.

One thing the native American chiefs taught Shaun......

"You may have a great idea or dream, but if the world is not ready to accept it yet, then it is useless"

I think Frank Whittle could testify to this as it took him 10 years to convince people that the jet engine he invented would work!

Oh yes indeedy ... the unacceptable little green face of jealousy and envy. Probably man's worst trait.

It is always hard to be a maverick, to buck the trend, to fly in the face of public opinion, but thankfully history shows there has always been such mavericks ... you quote Whittle, a good example indeed. Winston Churchill springs to mind ... a complete academic dunce, and considered by his father to be a complete waste of space! Some dunce! Some waste of space! I would not be sitting here typing these words were it not for the sheer guts, arrogance and massive conviction that he was right of Winston Churchill's.

I hope we see wild wolves once more roam the hills of Scotland.